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Media Editing with Mac or Win 7: A normal review for normal people

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Sharky says

Hey guys, not a big deal and probably useless info but I’ve experienced a bit of a pickle past few months and I hope to share my experience so people can save money and time and most importantly of all… disappointment. :)

I will update this every now and then with dates and amend any new revelations as I go.

This is mainly to relate to After Effects and people who like making videos, playing games etc so consider this a personal, non official review because I’ve just come out the other end alive. I in no way consider myself professional about this, just sharing some insight on some things I’ve learnt because it has costed me time, money and alot of nerve.

Windows 7 VS Mac

Okay, it came out a few weeks ago at the time of writing, but my bro has been using the beta of W7 for a number of months now on his desktop PC. I of course, own a macbook pro. Have had it for over 2 years, been working on both PC and Mac with AE, Maya, games etc for well over 10 years. He’s gotten started with AE on W7 and I’ve dabbled with it on his system. I’ve used laptop PC’s, desktop PC’s, Macbook Pros and Mac Pros (big tower :)).

This little article is for those building a new system and those who consider upgrading with the purpose of gaming and After Effects or 3d.

Most people say that Mac is the industry standard for media, after effects, film, TV blah blah blah. I’ve been working in the industry for 5 years. Now I don’t know where this thought comes from, but it isn’t 100% true. The platform doesn’t mean much, you just need to know what software you will use.

Here are the pro’s and cons for the system and software you may wish to use and my personal conclusion as to which path you could take. Again, this is not an official review, just sharing what I’ve learnt, my regrets and my non regrets.

Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo 17 Inch: 6/10 (gaming) 7/10 (After Effects, media) 4/10 (Render Farm) 10/10 (Portability)

These laptops are no longer officially laptops mainly because they give out so much heat when under even mediocre stress. I only need to open World of Warcraft for 2 mins before the CPU temperatures averages literally around 80 degrees Celcius. After a recent repair, my temperature spikes to 106 celcius. Not safe, and not good.

Right now I’m rendering an After Effects project and it’s AVERAGE cpu temp is 104 celcius. That’s after 45 seconds of rendering.

There are rumours that it’s the heatsink that causes the problem and there is a self fix available however you WILL void your warranty if you try. So only do it if you can afford to lose your beloved mac forever.

http://www.staind-online.com/MBP/Site/MacBook%20Pro.html http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=334570 http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Core-Duo-Heat-Sink/336/1

These machines are great because of the leopard system and its combination with portability. You can take this baby literally anywhere and edit stuff, play games or do documents. Also, it’s great if you use it sparingly as a backup computer for editing.

These do not make great gaming machines. Firstly, they run extremely hot. Apple claims that even at 100’c it’s normal, but I’m not convinced, especially after seeing a potential repair bill in 4 figures for something like a change in the logic board (Mac’s version of a motherboard apparently).

They do make OKAY editing machines but this will completely depend on your lifestyle and business. However many faults they may have, and costly if even the smallest thing goes wrong, they are very high quality machines and I was very happy with the purchase for my freelancing and during my full time employment.

I do not recommend this for editing unless you want portability. Even the latest macbook pros, the uni body ones, have the same heating issues from what I’ve read and heard. I’ve mates at work who use the new ones for less hardcore workflows and they work fantastic. For big jobs like After Effects, Maya or gaming (WOW anyone), try to steer clear from it.

Best Course of Purchase:

Rent this sucker. I like to go for a 32 or 48 month contract where you pay weekly. www.rentsmart.com.au is one place to do it in Australia. They’re fast, easy, and you get a free upgrade to a new machine during your contract. Just apply, get a approval number, go to an apple store or www.nextbyte.com.au store and nab a macbook pro. All in the same day.

Reason why I rent is because it’s far cheaper. Additionally, laptops do NOT last as long as a desktop PC or tower. I have had 5 laptops over the past 7 years. Every single time, without fail, some part of the machine dies between 10 months and 1.5 years and I need to invest in repairs which cost me more (without warranty). I do alot of heavy work, so bear this in mind.

Mac Pro (any Model): 10/10 (gaming) 10/10 (After Effects, media) 10/10 (Render Farm) 1/10 (Portability)

A big hunky heavy tower. Very powerful, very slick, very cool. If there was an industry standard to video and media, this machine is it.

I’m not going to talk about specs because they range differently over different years for different users. However, I work in an edit suite with 8 Mac Pro’s, each from a different era of history spanning 7 years.

If you can afford this, then you have made a wise purchase. Not only are they beastly powerful when it comes to editing, they are rock solid stable and are far less prone to damage by wear and tear use and hardcore processing. Our company hired out 8 of the most powerful mac pro’s in the world for a week at one stage and they ate After Effects for a snack. I was able to edit in Final Cut at 4k resolution in real time with 10 unrendered layers and NO frame skipping.

To give you an idea of what that’s like, if I tried to open project that on my macbook pro, playing the unrendered sequence would run at less than 0.5 frames per second.

After Effects is also excellent on this machine. Working in full quality is a breeze. Not real time mind you, but enough for you to work very efficiently. You can scrub a decent project with little problem and rendering speed is very nice.

They’re also great for gaming. Though I don’t own one, you can have a mac pro that supports up to 4 NVidia GForce cards. It’s over kill for everything.

Maintainence is also not much of a problem. I’ve only seen 2 of our 8 machines get into trouble once after 5 years (and they were old machines). They needed only a replacement for the RAM and everything was fine. If anything, expect these machines to last you far beyond their maximum 3 year warranty before anything even remotely goes wrong. If you’re a mac enthusiast, you will be able to maintain this yourself without sending it back to Apple.

It’s not portable at all. The machine weighs over 10 to 20 KG’s (estimating after holding it up myself)

Best Course of Purchase

If you consider buying this (not renting) you are either a multi millionaire or very smart.

These machines are not cheap to buy and may be well out of range for most casual users. It’s a professional edit suite for a reason and very well built. Forking out $5k for this machine may be enough for most people but expect the lowest end of the hardware which by the way is still very powerful. Decking it out with everything but the kitchen sink will cost you over $30,000 for a single machine. You may as well give up a year’s wages for that but to get something like that is pure overkill unless you’re intending on running a massive studio.

However if you are uneasy about the price and seriously want to buy this machine, understand that it is money well spent and I personally label this the best machine for anything from render farming, after effects, maya, gaming etc.

There are cheaper alternatives that I will explain in detail further. Other than that, get this machine for your video productions.

(The following is pure speculation from very little experience with this machine)

iMac (any Model from 2008)

I don’t know much about these machines but a friend of mine does own one. Very beautiful, I’ve used one for a few hours, not much different in terms of use so I’ll touch on rumours and research from what I’ve learnt.

Expect to treat these machines like a Macbook Pro, particularly with it’s heat. Heat + CPU = bad. I don’t care what Apple claims, claims do not betray physics and chemistry. Heat will damage components and shorten it’s life span. I’ve read a few articles of how hot this thing can get, not that it matters when it comes to the average user, but for hardcore processing, you ought to beware.

This machine is a great machine alternative to the Mac Pro particularly with it’s specs. They are almost on par with the lower end of a Mac Pro and almost half the price.

Personally, with not experience in mind, I don’t expect these things to last longer than a Mac Pro and will require apple maintenance which, depending if you have the warranty, will cost you alot.

Best Course of Purchase

Rent. Again like the Macbook Pro, they may be sexy, but expect them to have hitches as time wears on. Hitches and hardware failures are to be expected with any machine however, but in the case of apple, it’s the cost. Repairs without warranty are in the four figures especially if it’s a logic board change. Make sure you have Apple Protection Plan!

Anyone who would like to give some insight to this model feel free. I don’t know enough :)

Windows 7 and PC’s

It’s a long fiery war between Microsoft and Apple, but that’s what makes it great for us consumers who don’t give a rip about either of them. There is a debate about which is better. Personally it will depend on what you want to do. If you’re a gamer, then get a PC with W7. For editing, a macintosh is generally better.

Because there are so many different types of machines, I will share a general overview of laptop PC and desktop PC’s.

Firstly, Windows provides the most accessible software to use when it comes to editing. After Effects works great so are editing programs like Sony Vegas or Premiere. Depending on your specs, laptop PC’s can be very powerful and portable at the same time. Either way, steer clear away from Vista and get Windows 7 or XP. Vista is the worst system to use both for it’s unreliability and resource hogging. Layman’s terms: Vista sucks. Period.

Windows 7 is quite rock solid. If I could compare it with Mac OS, it would still rank second to it. But the many major improvements means it’s far more stable than Vista and much quicker. Mac OS is still faster and more rock solid, but Windows 7 has reached the threshold where it doesn’t matter, as long as you have the software for it. So anyway, onto the machines.

Laptop PC’s: 6 – 10/10 (gaming) 4 – 6 /10 (After Effects, media) 3/10 (Render Farm) 8-10 /10 (Portability)

Laptops are, in general, not great for editing and for a few reasons. Firstly, laptops are small, meaning the hardware is small, meaning the more powerful a laptop machine is, the more heat it produces and any educated person in the PC realm knows the one golden rule. Heat is not good for hardware. I have had 4 different PC laptops over the past 5 – 6 years and each one has failed in it’s long distance run. Hardware problems arose after 7 – 8 months of use. The longest of which was 1.5 years and that was my favourite HP pavilion laptop.

They are prone to problems when it comes to heavy work and they will not last you the distance.

However, their specs are very broad and they are quite cheap to purchase. Also, they are the funnest machines ever allowing you to play almost every game that has ever come out. Some gaming laptops are fantastic boasting specs and a price that will make Apple cry. An example is the Alienware from Dell. When it comes to gaming, these things can be scary.

http://www1.ap.dell.com/au/en/home/notebooks/laptop-alienware-m17x/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-alienware-m17x&s=dhs&cs=audhs1

However if you want to purchase these remember that they will not last you long. So make sure you have maximum warranty for any of the machines you purchase and backup your data often if not automatically everyday. Because they will fail you at inconvenient times.

For video editing, especially for users who wish to be portable, these are great machines for those who have a small budget and perfect for light work. With windows 7, you can run pretty much any software you wish. After Effects runs as well as the mac on Windows 7, I didn’t notice any difference other than limitations in hardware.

Generally, PC laptops are not built with the same love as Apple, but they are mass produced, cheap and easy to maintain.

Best Course of Purchase

These can be bought outright, however you can rent if you wish which is also a good idea. I don’t like to purchase things outright and I prefer not to do financing as it costs you more on the long run.

Remember to include warranty in your purchase, it will save you headaches which are almost guaranteed :).

PC desktops: 9-10/10 (gaming) 9-10 /10 (After Effects, media) 10+/10 (Render Farm) 8 /10 (Portability)

PC desktops are also more stable than laptops and they last substantially longer than PC laptops. I’ve had one for over 3 years without a problem aside from reinstalling every now and then because I crashed my Vista or XP, they tend to be well built to last.

Things can break however, BUT the beauty of PC’s is that they are cheap to fix and can be fixed yourself. Even newbies can learn some easy tricks to replace RAM , video cards or the like. So if anything breaks, it’s not a big deal.

For gaming, they are probably the best to use. Just make sure you have the right specs.

For After Effects, it is just as good as a Mac Pro. Just remember you will need to manually install codecs for Mac such as H264 or Apple Pro Res. PC’s are versatile but require more tweaking and fiddling, not recommended if you’re a newbie with tweaking a computer. Usually if you get Quicktime, you will have most of the codecs but I don’t guarantee this. Also, I haven’t had the chance to experiment on this part but I know it’s a real pain in the behind when you want to open a video only to not have it work because of a codec issue. This is the advantage a Mac has over a PC as most industry codecs are Mac based.

PC’s can be custom built to your specs which can potentially save you money. Also by doing so, you will be familiar with the hardware components in your computer so if anything breaks, you can make quick repairs at a cheap price.

Warranty isn’t a big deal unless you’re unsure of how to repair or replace components so that will save you some cash.

PC’s are also excellent for Render Farming because they are so versatile. Great for 3d Artists or animators. You can literally mold out your own render farm in creative ways. Not recommended unless you’re hardcore, but cheap render farms these days are relatively easy to build for a relatively cheap price.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1815789,00.asp http://www.slashgear.com/wall-mounted-six-pc-custom-render-farm-2617500/ http://hackaday.com/2008/09/30/6-pcs-in-one-clear-case/

Best Course of Purchase

Pay outright. There’s no need to rent or finance as you can upgrade bits and pieces as you go.

It’s possible to build a decent editing machine for less than AU $1000. Specs that go up to $2000 and over will almost guarantee you a machine that’s as powerful as a low end Mac Pro. Push yourself, and you can exceed those specs.

I recommend W7 with a decent machine and After Effects. There is no distinction with the workflow on a PC or mac with After Effects other than it’s interface with Finder and Explorer. Purchase one, you will not regret… unless you bought Vista. ;)

Conclusion

So, what should you go for? Again, this isn’t a fully official review, just something I wanted to share with people because I had to learn things the hard way over the past few years. I have invested in over $7000 in PC and Mac equipment and another $9000 in software.

That’s not counting the number of times I had to upgrade and repair my machines.

So to conclude this, I don’t want people to feel that they regret their purchase if the scores above dismay you. I myself have bought all these machines (except the iMac) and regret nothing. Each of them has helped me achieve my objective of my job in different ways. The only difference is the cost that could have been saved.

After Effects or any media software (Maya, vegas, FCP , photoshop etc) in Windows or Macintosh is not distinguishable. After Windows 7 came out, you will NOT have an advantage using a PC or a Mac. The performance is still tied to the system’s hardware which can be reached by both platforms.

The only thing you want to take into account is the ease of use of the OS and codecs and whether or not you want to be gaming while you work or are a freelancer running around with a mobile edit suite in your backpack.

The only thing I want to say is try to avoid PC laptops if you can. In terms of hardware, these are most prone to problems you don’t want, even if you take good care of them.

Mac and Windows is no longer a problem in terms of productivity. You will have a much nicer time with a Mac with it’s ease of use and solid hardware, or you can enjoy yourself more with a PC. Just remember to note the cost of each.

If I would recommend a system that is best overall, it would be a Mac Pro. Mainly because you can go to windows on a Mac, but on a PC, it’s a little harder. Hackintosh’s are not supported and there have been problems with running After effects or software on a Hackintosh, drivers missing, crashing, bugs etc.

A PC however is just as good especially with the price. Make a purchase either way, it’s still good.

For portable users, Macbook Pro is great for editing on the go.

Phew! There you go guys, my 2 cents. Alot of it at least. Hope this might help people from the evil nasties out there.

3 years ago
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flashato says

Thanks 4 sharing Sharky,
Very interesting.

3 years ago
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Massfocus says

Thanks allot man :) (the nerd in me) allways loves to hear first hand experiences of certain hardware/software issues :p

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Daniel_R says

Sharky this thread is really good!

I have both systems too and have quite time working on both systems with the same approach: 3d, gaming and AE. I liked your opinion and will share here my personal experience (7 years fixing and building customs PC’s) when I come back home from this business trip.

I would like to discuss more about the PC and different brands I’ve worked with.

Till then…

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InkVille says

thanks for the Info buddy, i have one question, i bought Dell Studio15 laptop 3 months back, with Windows Vista Home Premium and now Dell is giving me Windows 7 free upgrade. But what i am thinking is, is there any difference in handling & performance if i upgrade my system from Windows vista premium to windows 7 and if i make a clean install of windows 7. Suggest me guys, as i’ll be getting windows 7 upgrade this week.

So what to do, 1) Upgrade the Windows Vista Premium to Windows 7 OR 2)Clean Installation Of Windows 7

3 years ago
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Sharky says

Clean install

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felt_tips says

Very balanced and interesting read, Sharky.

I would also add a couple of words about expectation. In many respects if you work in the print production, film production or advertising…. particularly the high end, there is a kind of expectation that you will use Macintosh.

Except if you are a 3D artist, in which case you will more likely than not swear by PC / Linux. And I think most Autodesk stuff… Flame, Smoke, Inferno etc. is running on Unix boxes these days. (Silicon Graphics seems to have disappeared…correct me if I’m wrong)

Large film facilities tend to run a lot of stuff on Linux too. The cost of keeping hundreds of Macs up to date would just be overwhelming. And I think the technicians who keep the render farms in check tend to prefer to tinker about on Windows / Linux.

Personally, I use a Mac Pro for work and a Macbook Pro to take out and about, present work, take on-set and of course for surfing the web etc. I rarely do processor intensive work on my laptop. The current one is now nearly 4 years old and still on its first battery, despite having been almost constantly on. (I think the batteries last much longer if you allow them to charge and discharge constantly, rather than leaving them plugged in). It also runs damn hot. I would never leave it rendering and go out.

I have also owned PCs and worked with them a great deal too. Inside the programs, they’re more or less identical and I’ve never noticed any significant speed differences. But my personal preference for nearly 20 years has been for the Mac OS and considering the amount of time I spend in front of a computer, the extra cost is money well spent IMHO .

At the end of the day though, they’re all computers…. they all do much the same thing. The endless debate about the absolute superiority of Mac or PC is pretty daft if you ask me. Which is why it’s nice to see a nice balanced read on the subject.

-felt.

3 years ago
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MarkBrodhuber says
thanks for the Info buddy, i have one question, i bought Dell Studio15 laptop 3 months back, with Windows Vista Home Premium

How is it? I own a Dell Studio XPS 13 , and I love it. My girlfriend just bought the same computer you have and we’re waiting for it to be delivered. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it!

3 years ago
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InkVille says
thanks for the Info buddy, i have one question, i bought Dell Studio15 laptop 3 months back, with Windows Vista Home Premium
How is it? I own a Dell Studio XPS 13 , and I love it. My girlfriend just bought the same computer you have and we’re waiting for it to be delivered. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it!

Studio15 is damn good, i just love it. even with Vista Home Premium Studio15 runs smooth, all my uploaded project files are done on same lappy :), 3D Studio MAX 9 works fine as well.. some time i use it to play NFS Most Wanted :D, after this much use Studio15 runs perfect without any over heating problem. This laptop runs without any noise and pretty handy. Battery backup is awesome. i wud say i am a proud owner of Studio 15.. Dell Rocks :)

3 years ago
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